Wow Greg, it's designers like you that I don't want or need on my team. It's great that you have all these ideas about what you want but you need to understand that managers can't have someone like you come in and tell them how you want to be managed. Any good manager will have weighed the options and decided that a stock image is the way to go. We need team players who will SUCK IT UP and look for the stock image not undermine us. If you are looking for all these things like trust, appreciation, fun, etc you are better off starting your own company to receive them. In the meantime, you get what you give.

Jennie - I completely disagree. A good manager WILL want individual employees to tell them how they want to be managed. There's no one method of management that works for everyone and I'd rather work with my employees to understand their individual needs and adjust my style accordingly. Obviously though, the foundation for this dynamic relies on the employee being responsible and mature enough to understand the employee/employer relationship. If that exists, trust, appreciation and fun can/will happen.

I can only read Jennie's response and laugh. "You get what you give"? Really? Does that expectation apply just to the "grunts", or should it also be applied to you, as a manager, in what you "give" to the people that you work with?

If the "teams" you've managed to scare up (and of those, the employees you've managed to KEEP) are producing anything resembling thought provoking, or even mildly interesting work - I'd be amazed.

So Jennie, he wants to save you money by offering his photography expertise (while you only pay for a web designer!), so you don't have to pay for expensive stock photos (or pay for a photographer), and you want him to "suck it up" and not undermine you? Well, it sounds like you just want a grunt to serve your every whim, and you don't want a creative expert at all! You're the kind of project manager that we talent loathe. Sorry, but if you hire us, we expect that you are hiring us for what we can bring to your project. If you want LESS than that, do it yourself.

Seems like this post really hit some nerves.

Jennie, as I was putting this post together I was anticipating responses like yours. That is, while boiling down my conversation with Greg to this specific form, I was concerned that he might come across as kind of cocky. He didn't come across that way to me and, in fact, I appreciated that he was frank and pretty matter-of-fact about his experiences over the last 14 years. I apologize if this frankness, as I ended up conveying it, rankled.

I'm well aware that differences of opinion and outright conflicts can arise between designers and the folks who manage them. I also know that, over time, designers and managers learn how to deal with such conflicts. In most cases, the manager/client has the final say and the designer does "suck it up." Of course, feeling like you have to "suck it up" doesn't usually translate into doing work you're really psyched about.

I understand that wrangling with team members about design decisions, among other things, can be counter-productive. Sometimes there just isn't time for these sorts of discussions; sometimes decisions have already been made and there is nothing anyone on the team can do about it. I get it.

Ultimately, though, I think it's a question of communication and expectations. People, especially when they are talented and experienced, don't like being told what to do or feeling that their opinions don't matter. This is clear from the other comments here.

However, I think people like it even less when this state of affairs comes as a surprise. If everyone is up-front at the outset, I think things always turn out better. Team members should know what is expected of them and how much leeway they have for independent action. There's nothing wrong with an environment which focuses on execution, as long as people entering that environment know the deal.

Similarly, there's nothing wrong with designers, or whoever, having strong preferences in terms of management style, work environment, etc., so long as they make these preferences clear during the hiring process, not after the gig has already started.

When everyone knows and accepts the situation, there's a good chance things will go smoothly. When people, both designers AND managers, get into something that doesn't fit what they expected, you get the feelings expressed here.

Could not agree more with Greg and disagree more with Jennie. You Jennie, do not want anyone who's got any talent or expertise. You want robots who will do what you tell them to do. When managers like you hire talent with experience and real skills I always wonder, why not save money and hire a junior designer straight out of school? Or better yet have your 12-year old son do it. To people like you the result would be the same.

Let's clarify something. We're not debating talent or expertise.. the fact is, this post listed 5 bullet items about what Greg WANTS in a job. Of which, most if not all come across sounding pretty superficial. Which one of the bullets is supposed to be the one that talks about mentoring, helping him get to the next level in his career, challenging projects....?

As much as I welcome a healthy exchange with my team, as a manager I'm the one who is held accountable when sh*t hits the fan. I'm more than willing to take the heat for anyone on my team but when there isn't time to take an photo of something, take the 5 mins and find it online - we really don't need to have a 15 min discussion about it. I want a team player, not a rogue designer who fancies himself CEO.

Greg listed 5 things he wants in a job. This seems reasonable to me considering some of the candidate requirements out there for various roles on the web.

Trust is needed for growth and Flexibility for creativity.

Appreciation fuels hard work, which as indicated makes it easier to suck it up when necessary.

Learning helps people become better workers and this can come through mentorship.

Fun is a built in need which fortunately, in my opinion, is a naturally occuring side effect of the first four items being satisfied.

I'll have to go along with Jennie on this one. Commercial art, in all its forms is not a field where a designer is likely to express the full extent of their artistic talents on every project. It isn't even in the best interest of the business that the designer does so. Designers don't work in a bossless vacuum. We all know the variety of interests that come to bear on a project. Brand concerns, business needs, ownership roles, sales concerns, and marketing needs are only a few. At times their input is necessary and well-advised and other times they play havoc on what might have been successful design simply because they occupy a higher box on the ole' org chart. If you want to survive in this field, you have to take the little victories where you can, and build your own image over time with the people you can influence.

Or "suck it up" as Jennie aptly puts it.

I agree with the trust comment although not for the same reasons. It is only important to me that the business concerns I work for trust that the advice and design I am giving them are the best my experience can provide. They are in a position to accept or reject what I offer. Trust has nothing whatsoever to do with letting me design my way. That simply isn't the way this business works.

Talent and expertise come in many forms. You can express creativity in how you present yourself, in how you support your ideas and concepts; you can learn to be more proficient in your ability to convince others of your genius. I've convinced any number of stubborn clients to accept my work simply by building the relationships that provide a good venue for discussion. Most importantly however, you can learn to let go quickly when you've lost the battle and move on to the next possibility.

I am an artist also. In my free time I sculpt and paint. Every decision I make is my own as I am totally convinced of my own rightness. Even when I'm wrong, I'm not that wrong. My point is that you are better off finding personal expression in personal pursuits. We work in a field that is, as the great Frank Zappa would say, "Strictly commercial."

BTW, one of the best companies I ever worked for required a tie.

Who goes to an Interview without a Tie?
If your well-known and you've been in the industry for say ... 15 years, then fine, but to state that
"I don't wear a tie to interviews anymore. I don't need to dress up at this point", who's going to hire you (except maybe yourself)?

You know the cliche... "First impressions last forever." With that first impression, you're most likely going to have to work harder for respect from upper management (if you're even hired).

"I'm even kind of shocked that I have to leave the house!"
You're kidding right? I'll tell you from experience that working at home in your own personal studio, by your own personal self, can be self-destructive. Sitting on your own ideas and not creating outlets for collaboration will prevent you from growing as a designer. I'm pretty damn sure that your work will remain... stagnant... in regards to the variations in design.

And don't give me that "I collaborate via phone / AIM / etc" excuse. Collaboration in person is MUCH more effective in person. Have you ever sat through a phone conference? So many distractions lay at hand and it's really not that efficient compared to that of actually sitting shotgun at the meeting.

Anyways, in regards to this entry as a whole, I think the Flexibility part of the blog set off the tone of debate. I felt Jennie's frustration when I read item #2 because today, as designers, we are working our asses off to rid ourselves of the "artsy fartsy" feel. We're bigger than that. I, myself still hear people make comments like 'can you make this look prettier?' / etc. People like you reinforce that idea because you are putting us up on a pedestal built off of a day dreamer's mentality.

I reckon the School of VISUAL ARTS is offering a class called
"This is How it is: Designing for the Real World "

figured that I might finally interject here...

Gene: those points in the article came out wrong, I think. I don't wear a tie to interviews because I don't like ties and what they symbolize to me. Sorry if you think that makes me a snob or shallow or whatever. I haven't ever had a design job where I had to wear a tie. Also, if the people that hire me demand that I wear one, then that tells me that the work environment FOR ME is not going to be comfortable and creative. Jeez, it's 2008, not 1958, and I should have some say in the job I take, right?

Also, Gene, the leaving the house comment came out terrible wrong in the article. You are totally correct here. I do prefer face to face collaboration with people every time. My point was that, once I've met with people, I should be free to go home where I am more comfortable and do my work. With the advent of home computers and the internet, we are now forced into doing wayyyy more work, as opposed to the reduced workload these time-saving tools were meant for. I have all of my direction and ideas ready to go into production, why can't I do it at home? If the work is done on time, what's the problem?

And, finally, Jennie, I don't follow the "rogue designer" comment at all. I loathe the idea of being CEO or managing anyone other than myself. I simply want the people that hire me to trust that I know what I'm doing, to be there if I need their opinions, and to give me challenging and fun work to do. Simple as that. I'm sorry if you didn't get any of that from the article.

Also, I'm not sure what's superficial with what I want in a job. You seem to think that everyone must want to rise up that ladder of success. I'm sorry, but I'm happy doing what I do and have no real plans to go up anyone's ladder. I like designing websites, making Flash animations and making illustrations. Aquent has been great in placing me in jobs that allow me to do exactly what I want to do. I have friends that own their own businesses (also designers) and the stress and struggles they deal with are just not worth it for me to follow them down that path. I have even been a manager before and found that it took me away from doing the actual work that I love!

Tie to the interview, not during work! :)

Wearing a tie to an interview is simply showing respect to the business and some semblance of seriousness in an interview situation. An interviewer will not stop to ask why you aren't wearing a tie and listen patiently while you are explaining that the tie is a symbolic noose designed to strangle creative thought or some such other lame nonsense. More than likely, they'll quietly assume you aren't taking the situation seriously. Oh, I suppose you might answer that you wouldn't want to work for a company that might think that. Fair enough, more work for the rest of us I suppose.
Claiming that a tie or no tie is somehow conducive to creative expression is no more rational than saying boxers are more beneficial to creativity than briefs. It's simply silly, and, one might say, superficial.

As strange as it may seem, artists need to learn how to better educate our clients (bosses). After all, their training is different than ours, focusing on the bottom line. Everything is a sell, creatives - get used to it. It takes time to build trust in business; people would rather learn how much you care than learn what you know.

So, this week a co-worker and I figured out a way to deal with in-house clients that drive us bonkers. We created a 'gripe bowl' (using a fish bowl). When we sense a rant coming on, we first drop some coin (or a buck) into the bowl. It makes us think a bit before complaining. And when the bowl count reaches 20 bucks, off to Trader Joe's we go for some healthy snacks. I'd rather eat some goodies than my words (for lacking the skill in educating a client about the creative process).

I guess a lot of people here still love their ties, and are really stuck to the idea that they show respect. That's fine. Go ahead, call me superficial. Whatever. But, again, I have not worn a tie to an interview for ages, and I seem to have no problem getting a wide variety of work that I really like. It might just be my luck, or that wearing a tie to an interview really is losing its meaning.